Request for Feedback: New CalDAV and CardDAV implementation for Kopano

Mornsgrans

Additional Info:
Contacts with phone numbers only, but without e-mail addresses become synchronized and stored and synchronized with KDav in the contacts folder.
Just if any email address was typed in, the contact becomes deleted just after sync-attempt.

If you do any changes in a contact, the changes become rejected (after sync the old state is back again).

Deleting contacts works.

Manfred

Hi Mornsgrans,

the emClient uses two different uids when creating a contact:

11.05.2019 12:47:34 [ 3199] [DEBUG] main PUT /addressbooks/vw/Kontakte/fce26428-fc67-49bf-929b-bc2a4f156af9.vcf

but in the vcard data:

BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:4.0
PRODID:-//MailClient.VObject/7.2.35128.0
UID:urn:uuid:e70bbd69-7c81-4be3-8cb8-7bca4a5356fe
N;SORT-AS="Test, Otto":Test;Otto;;;
FN:Otto Test
EMAIL;PREF=1:otto@test.net
END:VCARD

KDAV uses the one in vcard data (e70bbd69-7c81-4be3-8cb8-7bca4a5356fe) to create a contact, but emClient uses the one from the PUT request (fce26428-fc67-49bf-929b-bc2a4f156af9). I guess that the contact gets deleted because KDAV response is 404 (not found). However the contact should still be in Kopano.

Manfred

Mornsgrans

Hello Manfred,
thank you for your reply. Unfortunatelly the contact does not remain in Kopano. But I think, that I now can contact emClient-Support using the hint in your answer.

Thank you very much.

Mornsgrans

Yesterday in the evening I got answer from emClient-support:

…
We have come to the conclusion that the issue is server-side announcing support for vCard 3 and vCard 4 versions (vcardVersion.PNG), but only supporting 3 or not fully supporting v4. We at eM Client try to use the latest possible version the server announced it supports and that seems to be the issue.
…
We suggest you either get in touch with Kopano support with this detailed screenshots/information or provide us a direct contact in Kopano to whom we could explain and/or test more. We would also welcome some kind of feedback on the Kopano forum as the analysis done by their team is incorrect, as explained and demonstrated earlier.
…

So my question is:
How can the emClient-support-team contact you?

P.S.: Changing calendar-entries also sometimes leads to an error.

Mornsgrans

Well, now I have the permission to post the full answer from emClient-support.

In addition emclient suppert will be very appreciated, if the Kopano team gets in contact with emClient-team to exchange informations to get emClient to sync with Kopano. The Kopano tam can use the case number- but I do not want to publish it in the internet.

Thank you for the test account. We have tried to simulate the same UID and URL, but as we were afraid of, this did not solve the issue.

We have come to the conclusion that the issue is server-side announcing support for vCard 3 and vCard 4 versions (vcardVersion.PNG), but only supporting 3 or not fully supporting v4. We at eM Client try to use the latest possible version the server announced it supports and that seems to be the issue.

Let us explain in more details but please note that if the explanation is too technical, Kopano should be able to fully understand it or if you can provide direct contact at Kopano, we can get in touch with them.

1, Confirmation that UID and URL can be different:
We have created very simple basic contact information containing a single word name “TestName” - no space nor any other information. This contact is correctly uploaded to Kopano and stays in server. Please see the screenshot from eM Client,
raw communication log (TestNameUpload.PNG) and confirmation that the URL is correctly found in SabreDAV/Kopano (SabreDavConfirmation.PNG).

Creating contact with full name and surname, i.e. “Test Name” will fail here

2, Creating complex name with same UID and URL
Like the above case, we have forced eM Client to keep the fields same. This does not help as contact is not created (sameUidURLNotCreated.PNG).

3, Manually creating a contact in v3 format
It can be seen from screenshot v3DiffUidURLSaved.PNG that this is correctly processed by Kopano and saved. The URL and UID are different, the version is v3 and name/surname/phone and email are filled in.

Unfortunately, the vCard version v3 and v4 are not fully backward compatible and there is no configuration option to manually switch the version in eM Client as we fully trust the information server sends us. We try to use the latest supported format to be able to provide our users as much functionality as possible.

We suggest you either get in touch with Kopano support with this detailed screenshots/information or provide us a direct contact in Kopano to whom we could explain and/or test more. We would also welcome some kind of feedback on the Kopano forum as the analysis done by their team is incorrect, as explained and demonstrated earlier.

With regards

Attached I received 5 screenshots:
vcardVersion.PNG

v3DiffUidURLSaved.PNG

TestNameUpload.PNG

sameUidURLNotCreated.PNG

SabreDavConfirmation.PNG

Manfred

Hi Mornsgrans,

we’ll investigate why it works with vCard version 3., but not with version 4.

Regarding the vCard 3 and vCard 4 - it’s coming from sabredav which KDAV uses. The current quick workaround this issue would be to edit /usr/share/kdav/vendor/sabre/dav/lib/CardDAV/Xml/Property/SupportedAddressData.php around line 39, so that it looks like this:

        if (is_null($supportedData)) {
            $supportedData = [
                ['contentType' => 'text/vcard', 'version' => '3.0'],
                //['contentType' => 'text/vcard', 'version' => '4.0'],
                //['contentType' => 'application/vcard+json', 'version' => '4.0'],
            ];
        }

This will force using vCard version 3.

Manfred

Mornsgrans

Hello Manfred,
thank you for your answer. I changed the file as you recommended and now it nearly works properly.
If I want to delete a calendar-entry, I get the message, that it could not be deleted (Precondition failed).
Creating, modifying and deleting Contacts works.

If you are interested to exchange with emClient, I can give you needed information to contact them.

Mornsgrans

A few more tests:
Creating a task or calendar-entry leads to a duplication of each entry after sync.
If I delete one entry, the other remains in Kopano and needs to be removed manually. This leads to an error that it could not be found on server and I get the offer, to delete locally.
Attached the logfile in my dropbox (115KB) from creation to deletion.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jmp3ja5bc5e2ktj/kdav.log.txt?dl=0

Next issue:
The German “Umlauts” are transformed into a wrong charset after creating or modifying in emClient or Outlook 2007 with CalDAVSynchronizer.
“Rüdiger” becomes transformed to “RÃ¼diger”, if data are manipulated in Windows client (except Kopano Webapp).
After correcting the Umlauts in Kopano Webapp the become displayed corretly on mobile device, Kopano and emClient/Outlook.
It seems, that Umlauts become transformed on upload to UCS via Kdav, but they become trasferred in the right way from UCS to clients.

amaccuish

@Fux said in Request for Feedback: New CalDAV and CardDAV implementation for Kopano:

When I try to access contacts via kdav I get the following error at a few contacts - the others work:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<d:error xmlns:d="DAV:" xmlns:s="http://sabredav.org/ns">
  <s:sabredav-version>3.2.2</s:sabredav-version>
  <s:exception>Sabre\VObject\ParseException</s:exception>
  <s:message>Invalid Mimedir file. Line starting at 19 did not follow iCalendar/vCard conventions</s:message>
</d:error>

22.02.2019 14:50:13 [29577] [DEBUG] main httpcode='500' memory='1.25 MiB/2.00 MiB' time='0.06s'
22.02.2019 14:50:13 [29577] [DEBUG] main ------------------ End

Does anyone know where to search for a solution?

I have this issue. Has anyone submitted example contacts to demonstrate the problem? It currently means I can’t sync with Apple Contacts. The line where the problem is seems to be the UID line.

fbartels

@amaccuish said in Request for Feedback: New CalDAV and CardDAV implementation for Kopano:

Has anyone submitted example contacts to demonstrate the problem?

I have not received any.

amaccuish

@fbartels I have just sent an email now!

noise

Hi all
im stuck by a depreaching warning…using Ubuntu 18.04.3

i do the following:

Install sabre-dav:

sudo apt-get install php-sabre-dav

create working kdav folder:

mkdir /var/www/kdav
cd /var/www/kdav

wget https://github.com/Kopano-dev/kdav/archive/v0.9.0.tar.gz
tar xfvz v0.9.0.tar.gz
mv kdav-0.9.0/* /var/www/kdav
rm -r kdav-0.9.0
rm v0.9.0.tar.gz

php -r "copy('https://getcomposer.org/installer', 'composer-setup.php');"
php -r "if (hash_file('sha384', 'composer-setup.php') === 'a5c698ffe4b8e849a443b120cd5ba38043260d5c4023dbf93e1558871f1f07f58274fc6f4c93bcfd858c6bd0775cd8d1') { echo 'Installer verified'; } else { echo 'Installer corrupt'; unlink('composer-setup.php'); } echo PHP_EOL;"
php composer-setup.php
php -r "unlink('composer-setup.php');"

setup the config php:

define('MAPI_SERVER', 'file:///var/run/kopano/server.sock');

// Authentication realm
define('SABRE_AUTH_REALM', 'Kopano DAV');

// Location of the SabreDAV server.
define('DAV_ROOT_URI', '/var/www/kdav/');

set rights:

chown -R root:www-data /var/www/kdav
chmod 664 /var/www/kdav/config.php

Composer Install:

noise:/var/www/kdav$ sudo ./composer.phar install
[sudo] password for noise: 
Deprecation warning: Your package name KopanoDAV is invalid, it should have a vendor name, a forward slash, and a package name. The vendor and package name can be words separated by -, . or _. The complete name should match "[a-z0-9]([_.-]?[a-z0-9]+)*/[a-z0-9]([_.-]?[a-z0-9]+)*". Make sure you fix this as Composer 2.0 will error.
Do not run Composer as root/super user! See https://getcomposer.org/root for details
Loading composer repositories with package information
Updating dependencies (including require-dev)
Package operations: 34 installs, 0 updates, 0 removals
  - Installing apache/log4php (2.3.0): Downloading (100%)         
  - Installing psr/log (1.1.0): Downloading (100%)         
  - Installing sabre/uri (1.2.1): Downloading (100%)         
  - Installing sabre/event (3.0.0): Downloading (100%)         
  - Installing sabre/http (v4.2.4): Downloading (100%)         
  - Installing sabre/xml (1.5.1): Downloading (100%)         
  - Installing sabre/vobject (4.2.0): Downloading (100%)         
  - Installing sabre/dav (3.2.3): Downloading (100%)         
  - Installing myclabs/deep-copy (1.9.3): Downloading (100%)         
  - Installing sebastian/version (2.0.1): Downloading (100%)         
  - Installing sebastian/resource-operations (1.0.0): Downloading (100%)         
  - Installing sebastian/recursion-context (2.0.0): Downloading (100%)         
  - Installing sebastian/object-enumerator (2.0.1): Downloading (100%)         
  - Installing sebastian/global-state (1.1.1): Downloading (100%)         
  - Installing sebastian/exporter (2.0.0): Downloading (100%)         
  - Installing sebastian/environment (2.0.0): Downloading (100%)         
  - Installing sebastian/diff (1.4.3): Downloading (100%)         
  - Installing sebastian/comparator (1.2.4): Downloading (100%)         
  - Installing symfony/polyfill-ctype (v1.12.0): Downloading (100%)         
  - Installing symfony/yaml (v4.3.4): Downloading (100%)         
  - Installing doctrine/instantiator (1.2.0): Downloading (100%)         
  - Installing webmozart/assert (1.5.0): Downloading (100%)         
  - Installing phpdocumentor/reflection-common (2.0.0): Downloading (100%)         
  - Installing phpdocumentor/type-resolver (1.0.1): Downloading (100%)         
  - Installing phpdocumentor/reflection-docblock (4.3.2): Downloading (100%)         
  - Installing phpspec/prophecy (1.8.1): Downloading (100%)         
  - Installing phpunit/php-text-template (1.2.1): Downloading (100%)         
  - Installing phpunit/phpunit-mock-objects (3.4.4): Downloading (100%)         
  - Installing phpunit/php-timer (1.0.9): Downloading (100%)         
  - Installing sebastian/code-unit-reverse-lookup (1.0.1): Downloading (100%)         
  - Installing phpunit/php-token-stream (2.0.2): Downloading (100%)         
  - Installing phpunit/php-file-iterator (1.4.5): Downloading (100%)         
  - Installing phpunit/php-code-coverage (4.0.8): Downloading (100%)         
  - Installing phpunit/phpunit (5.7.27): Downloading (100%)         
sabre/vobject suggests installing hoa/bench (If you would like to run the benchmark scripts)
sebastian/global-state suggests installing ext-uopz (*)
symfony/yaml suggests installing symfony/console (For validating YAML files using the lint command)
phpunit/php-code-coverage suggests installing ext-xdebug (^2.5.1)
phpunit/phpunit suggests installing phpunit/php-invoker (~1.1)
phpunit/phpunit suggests installing ext-xdebug (*)
Package phpunit/phpunit-mock-objects is abandoned, you should avoid using it. No replacement was suggested.
Writing lock file
Generating autoload files

/var/www/kdav# php composer.phar
Deprecation warning: Your package name KopanoDAV is invalid, it should have a vendor name, a forward slash, and a package name. The vendor and package name can be words separated by -, . or _. The complete name should match "[a-z0-9]([_.-]?[a-z0-9]+)*/[a-z0-9]([_.-]?[a-z0-9]+)*". Make sure you fix this as Composer 2.0 will error.
Do not run Composer as root/super user! See https://getcomposer.org/root for details
   ______
  / ____/___  ____ ___  ____  ____  ________  _____
 / /   / __ \/ __ `__ \/ __ \/ __ \/ ___/ _ \/ ___/
/ /___/ /_/ / / / / / / /_/ / /_/ (__  )  __/ /
\____/\____/_/ /_/ /_/ .___/\____/____/\___/_/
                    /_/
Composer version 1.9.0 2019-08-02 20:55:32

./phpunit tests
PHPUnit 5.7.27 by Sebastian Bergmann and contributors.

.EEEEE                                                              6 / 6 (100%)

Time: 112 ms, Memory: 6.00MB

There were 5 errors:

1) Kopano\DAV\KopanoDavBackendTest::testConstruct
PDOException: SQLSTATE[HY000] [14] unable to open database file

/var/www/kdav/lib/KopanoSyncState.php:45
/var/www/kdav/lib/KopanoDavBackend.php:48
/var/www/kdav/tests/kdav/KopanoDavBackendTest.php:44

2) Kopano\DAV\KopanoDavBackendTest::testGetObjectIdFromObjectUri with data set #0 ('1234.ics', '.ics', '1234')
PDOException: SQLSTATE[HY000] [14] unable to open database file

/var/www/kdav/lib/KopanoSyncState.php:45
/var/www/kdav/lib/KopanoDavBackend.php:48
/var/www/kdav/tests/kdav/KopanoDavBackendTest.php:44

3) Kopano\DAV\KopanoDavBackendTest::testGetObjectIdFromObjectUri with data set #1 ('5678AF.vcf', '.vcf', '5678AF')
PDOException: SQLSTATE[HY000] [14] unable to open database file

/var/www/kdav/lib/KopanoSyncState.php:45
/var/www/kdav/lib/KopanoDavBackend.php:48
/var/www/kdav/tests/kdav/KopanoDavBackendTest.php:44

4) Kopano\DAV\KopanoDavBackendTest::testGetObjectIdFromObjectUri with data set #2 ('123400.vcf', '.ics', '123400.vcf')
PDOException: SQLSTATE[HY000] [14] unable to open database file

/var/www/kdav/lib/KopanoSyncState.php:45
/var/www/kdav/lib/KopanoDavBackend.php:48
/var/www/kdav/tests/kdav/KopanoDavBackendTest.php:44

5) Kopano\DAV\KopanoDavBackendTest::testGetObjectIdFromObjectUri with data set #3 ('1234.ics', '.vcf', '1234.ics')
PDOException: SQLSTATE[HY000] [14] unable to open database file

/var/www/kdav/lib/KopanoSyncState.php:45
/var/www/kdav/lib/KopanoDavBackend.php:48
/var/www/kdav/tests/kdav/KopanoDavBackendTest.php:44

ERRORS!
Tests: 6, Assertions: 1, Errors: 5.

The other thing are the nginx directive (not shure if this are correct and can be working)
i want to implement it to the z-push directive like: https://smtp.domain.com/kdav

i have a few uncommented… but can’t test because composer not running.

Edit: found a simpler install:

curl -sS https://getcomposer.org/installer | sudo php -- --install-dir=/usr/local/bin --filename=composer
mkdir /var/www/kdav
cd /var/www/kdav
composer require sabre/dav ~3.2.0

nano /etc/nginx/sites-available/z-push.conf

location /kdav {
    root /var/www;
    index server.php;
#    rewrite ^(.*)$ /server.php;
#    rewrite ^ /kdav/server.php$uri;
#    rewrite ^/.well-known/caldav /cal.php redirect;
#    rewrite ^/.well-known/carddav /card.php redirect;
#    rewrite ^/server.php$uri break;
#    rewrite .*/server.php$uri break;
#    rewrite .*/.well-known/carddav$ / redirect;
#    rewrite .*/.well-known/caldav$ / redirect;
#    rewrite ^/.well-known/carddav$ / redirect;
#    rewrite ^/.well-known/caldav$ / redirect;
#    rewrite ^(.*)$ /server.php break;
    charset utf-8;

location ~ ^/kdav/(.+\.php)(.*)$ {
    root /var/www/kdav;
    index server.php;
    fastcgi_split_path_info ^(.+\.php)(/.+)$;
    fastcgi_pass unix:/var/run/php/php7.2-fpm.sock;
    fastcgi_param SCRIPT_FILENAME $request_filename;
    fastcgi_index server.php;
    include fastcgi_params;
    }
}
}

wget https://github.com/Kopano-dev/kdav/archive/v0.9.0.tar.gz
tar xfvz v0.9.0.tar.gz
mv kdav-0.9.0/* /var/www/kdav
rm -r kdav-0.9.0
rm v0.9.0.tar.gz

edit config.php

composer install

but run in the same:

Deprecation warning: Your package name KopanoDAV is invalid, it should have a vendor name, a forward slash, and a package name. The vendor and package name can be words separated by -, . or _. The complete name should match "[a-z0-9]([_.-]?[a-z0-9]+)*/[a-z0-9]([_.-]?[a-z0-9]+)*". Make sure you fix this as Composer 2.0 will error.
Do not run Composer as root/super user! See https://getcomposer.org/root for details
Loading composer repositories with package information
Installing dependencies (including require-dev) from lock file
Warning: The lock file is not up to date with the latest changes in composer.json. You may be getting outdated dependencies. Run update to update them.
Nothing to install or update
Generating autoload files

any hints are welcome ;-) thx

irreleph4nt

@noise
I think you might have a few things backwards here. First of all the depreciation warning itself is harmless, as it is a warning, not an error. So whilst it would be nice for a developer at Kopano to look at this, it won’t stop kdav from working.

A few other observations:

You are running composer install as root, which, as the console output tells you, you shouldn’t be doing. Instead, change to your webserver user and run composer with that.

su nginx -s /bin/bash
cd /var/www/kdav
./composer update
./composer install

I am adding the composer update command because of the output you see in the terminal. I personally have never used that.

The php dav extension you are installing in the beginning is unnecessary as composer downloads all dependencies to the kdav folder. You can hence skip that.

I myself am still struggling to get kdav working (again), so I’ll post back in case I succeed.

white-eagle

Hi All,

ich have the same problem here with german umlaut (ä, ö, ü) as mentioned by MichaelAnders2 and Mornsgrans with CardDAV.

If i check the kdav.log everything seems to be ok … the german umlauts are displayed correct with ä, ö, ü in the log file.

But when i have a look at the kdav created or updated contacts in webapp, deskapp, this letters are not displayed correctly. If i enter german ä, ö, ü, in webapp they are synced to the client with correct enoding.

i have kdav running on Debian 9 with kopano-core 8.7.5.

Manfred

Hi @white-eagle,

which client are you using? Are the umlauts correct when you check the contact in that client?

Manfred

white-eagle

Hi Manfred,

sorry for the late answer.

I built my own CARDDAV client to sync contacts between kopano and our CRM (MS SQL database) automatically.

This kdav.log is for utf8 encoded vcard
The letter Ä was sent with hex codes 0xC3 0x84

10.10.2019 12:54:34 [15759] [DEBUG] main ------------------ Start
10.10.2019 12:54:34 [15759] [DEBUG] main PUT /addressbooks/abcuser/Kontakte/3729D691-2A66A8B8-EEA4DA27
10.10.2019 12:54:34 [15759] [DEBUG] main KDAV version master-ad05c96
10.10.2019 12:54:34 [15759] [DEBUG] main SabreDAV version 3.2.2
10.10.2019 12:54:34 [15759] [TRACE]  dav KopanoSyncState->__construct(): Using db sqlite:/var/lib/kopano/kdav/syncstate.db
10.10.2019 12:54:34 [15759] [DEBUG] main KLogger->LogIncoming(): INPUT
PUT /addressbooks/abcuser/Kontakte/3729D691-2A66A8B8-EEA4DA27 HTTP/1.1
User-Agent: CardDav .NET/0.1
Content-Type: text/vcard
Host: kdav.domain.local
Content-Length: 143
Expect: 100-continue
Authorization: Basic REDACTED

BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:3.0
UID:3f016741-9ab8-46c3-9b9a-8694143389b8
N:A;Änderung;;;
EMAIL;INTERNET:herbert@domain.at
END:VCARD

At the end of this vcards logentry

HTTP/1.1 201 Created
X-KDAV-Version: master-ad05c96
X-Sabre-Version: 3.2.2
X-Sabre-Ew-Gross: vCard validation warning: The FN property must appear in the VCARD component exactly 1 time
Content-Length: 0

It think this is ok

But in DeskApp the name is displayed like this:

After this i tried sending a vcard with default encoding (knowing that this is not the right encoding) to be sure that i used utf8 before

10.10.2019 12:54:34 [15759] [DEBUG] main ------------------ Start
10.10.2019 12:54:34 [15759] [DEBUG] main PUT /addressbooks/abcuser/Kontakte/3729D691-2A66A8B8-EEA4DA27
10.10.2019 12:54:34 [15759] [DEBUG] main KDAV version master-ad05c96
10.10.2019 12:54:34 [15759] [DEBUG] main SabreDAV version 3.2.2
10.10.2019 12:54:34 [15759] [TRACE]  dav KopanoSyncState->__construct(): Using db sqlite:/var/lib/kopano/kdav/syncstate.db
10.10.2019 12:54:34 [15759] [DEBUG] main KLogger->LogIncoming(): INPUT
PUT /addressbooks/abcuser/Kontakte/3729D691-2A66A8B8-EEA4DA27 HTTP/1.1
User-Agent: CardDav .NET/0.1
Content-Type: text/vcard
Host: kdav.domain.local
Content-Length: 143
Expect: 100-continue
Authorization: Basic REDACTED

BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:3.0
UID:f57475d8-c48c-4b88-ba6a-0f219b581d0c
N:A;▒nderung;;;
EMAIL;INTERNET:herbert@domain.at
END:VCARD

At the end of this vcard log

HTTP/1.1 201 Created
X-KDAV-Version: master-ad05c96
X-Sabre-Version: 3.2.2
X-Sabre-Ew-Gross: vCard validation warning: Property is not valid UTF-8! A;▒nderung;;;
Content-Length: 0

As you see … not valid UTF-8 is correct because i used default encoding.

In the first scenario i think i use correct utf8 encoded vCard but the letters are not correct when the contact is stored in kopano address book

june

I do also have a problem with encoding of Umlauts. I filed an issue here: https://github.com/Kopano-dev/kdav/issues/5#issuecomment-548848833

Manfred

Hi @amaccuish,

there have been some fixes and also more logging. Please update to the latest master branch version.

@june @white-eagle thanks for reporting the umlaut issue. Unfortunately I didn’t have time to debug it more extensively yet.

Manfred

zash1958

Hi Norman,

I am also experimenting with KDAV but somewhere I must have an error in its config.

But I always get the error message:

16.11.2019 19:49:14 [25224] [TRACE] dav KopanoDavBackend->Logon(): XXXXXXXXXXX / password
16.11.2019 19:49:14 [25224] [WARN ] error /var/www/kdav/lib/KopanoDavBackend.php:65 mapi_logon_zarafa(): Unable to setup service for provider (2)
16.11.2019 19:49:14 [25224] [INFO ] dav KopanoDavBackend->Logon(): Auth: ERROR - logon failed for user XXXXXXX
16.11.2019 19:49:14 [25224] [DEBUG] main KLogger->LogOutgoing(): OUTPUT:
HTTP/1.1 401 Unauthorized

Could someone here so kind and post me a working config of:

the config for the virtual host
the config.php

My KDAV runs in “/var/www/kdav” directory

I am configuring in circles ATM :-(

TIA

Uwe

zash1958

Found the error…

Only 2 // in my statement of accessing the socket…